Dialogue between Clara Neville and Louisa Mills, on Loyalty (2024)

From The Art and Popular Culture Encyclopedia

Dialogue between Clara Neville and Louisa Mills, on Loyalty (1794) is a text by Elizabeth Dawbarn, published anonymously.

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CLARA NEVILLE,

EA happy, Miſs Mills, in having an op- |

portunity afforded me, to have half an hour's converſation with you; for indeed, Louiſa, T am ſorry to hear you have caught the epide- mical diſtemper, and that you alſo have opened

your pretty mouth againſt our government, and have loft the warm attachment you . uled to profefs to have to our Sovereign. am

not inſenſible to your many good qualities,

but am truly concerned that your mind is contaminated with diſſoyal prineiples, ſuch principles as are deſtruQtive * _ and tran

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LOUISA

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(4) TopisA MILLS. Why, Miſs Neville, 1 am become a patriot, | or a patrioteſs, if you pleaſe. 1 am grieved | for the many calamities this country groans | . 7 under, without any proſpect of a redreſs. Mir. Paine (and the perſon who lent me .. Paine's. writings) have quite altered my Z ' views concerning monarchy, &c. I am now | all for liberty and independence. What a Ha happy people the Americans muſt be! They 1 bave no kings, no tythes, no taxes, &c. | &c. I long to be in America! and depend upon it 1 ſhall ſoon get my brother i in the -mind to go; moſt gladly ſhall I accompany | im to that delightful country. Why ſhould N I not go? It is impoſſible to xeſt contented here, when ane 1s continually hearing of the felicity of the Americans; I am not contented

| _ = England, E | . CLARA. | | Not contended in England! 20 why "IR F 4 you would not be contented in America, nor t 1 . f any where elſe. Do you ſuppoſe a change 0 of \

— changes the Wiſpofition f no, The | man

133

man who is too proud to be contented here, will be juſt the ſame on any other part of the globe. A virtuous man will be contented any where; and he who is not virtuous, has no right to expet} the great bleſſing of content= ment let him be where ever he may.

ee Plant Virtue, and Contents i- the fruit.“ What are tythes and taxes to you and 1? What injury do we ſuſtain by them? or what advantages ſhould we derive from an abolition of both? No government, for any length of time, can be ſypported without taxes, tribute, collections, or call it what you will. America is in an infant flate, and no infant requires ſo much to ſupport it, as a grown-up perſon. But ſhquld America, in its growth, be in- volved in a war, as moſt probably it may, that par myſt he ſupported with money; and that money muſt be levied ſome way or other. T ſuppoſe human nature to be the ſame there as in other places, and that people would ſoon be tired of voluntary contributions, to ſupport: a war, though a juſt and neceſſary one.

And pray, Loyifa , from whence ſprang your Aillike

diſlike to kings? Till theſe two years you had no ſuch antipathy. I remember you uſed to admire, as much as I did, the example of our Soveriegn, as a huſband and parent,

&c. &c. and that too at a time when conjugal

infidelity and licentiouſneſs ſeem to have arrived at their zenith, You uſed to ſay it vas well for this nation that vice and immo- rality were in ſome degree put out of coun- tenance by the amiable condutt of our King and Queen. Is the King a worſe man, or a worſe monarch, than he was three years ago? No, he is ſtill the ſame; and till as juſtly dear to all his loyal ſubjects. Vou once in- timated & what a glorious time it would be «when there were no Kings.” That time will never come. The Prophet Iſaiah, ſpeaking of the church militant in its higheſt ſtate, ſays, „Kings ſhall be nurſing fathers, &c.“ Iſaiah xlix. ver. 23. And in Revelation it is ſaid con- cerning the Church, in the /aft days, © Kings F ſhall bring their glory into it.” Rev. xxi, yer, 24. This plainly proves chat there will

• kings to the end of time, Ho

| Way

Sr):

I thought moſt -pleaſing to the great King of the Univerſe? I ſhould anſwer Monarchical.“ Becauſe, when He made the world, one Being was conſtituted Lord, or Sovereign. And in his own kingdom, there is one King, or Potentate, Chriſt Jeſus.

the reſt, From this I alſo have been led to

ſupreme power veſted in one than many. | * LOUISA,

your opinion; I ſhall not revert back again; you can never undo in my mind what Mr. Paine has done; before I read that author, and converſed ſo freely with his ad- mirers, I confeſs I thought as you do, and was contented in ſlavery, but now my ſpirit riſes above it. And was I a man, England ſhould not hold me another month. I have no perſonal diſlike to the King, but our go- vernment is ſo extremely defective, that CLARA,

Was I alked, «What form of government |

In a private family what diſcord and con- fuſion reign, where there is no proper gover- nor, or director, one who has the command of

ſuppoſe it much better for a nation to have the

Well, Clara, I ſhall never be profehncd to

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t*1 CLARA, | | And are you perfect? or does perfection

centre in Paine and his adherents? I am glad you do not vilify his Majeſty, but that would

be as meritorious as railing againſt governriierit.

I think you called yourſelf by a wrong name when you ſaid you was a patriot. The word patriot means a lover of his country;

one who would exert himſelf to the utmoſt in

Re

the common welfare of the nation to which he

belongs who would uſe every effort to make all his countrymen and countrywomen happy. This I apprehend to be the true definition of

of the word phriot, and therefore I think you are not one. It appears to me that no one can be a patriot who is ſo materially injuring their

country, as to four the minds of its inhabitants

with diſcontent. For I find that this ſpirit of

diſaffection is the cauſe of evils which cannot h

be enumerated. You ſay you ſhall 5 get your . in

che mind to go into America. What means

do you make uſe of to induce him to go? Why you. endeavour, directly and indireQtly, to ſow the ſeeds of diſcontent in his mind;

and

33

—_ } and you hope to ſee a fine crop of rebellion

grow up in a little time, I ſuppoſe. ls this your patriotiſm, Louiſa? To whoſe

- patriotiſm is this kingdom indebted for the

loſs of many of its valuable artiſans? To

whoſe patriotiſm are we to impute the loſs of

friends and relatives, whom many are now grieving for. Is it conſiſtent with patriotiſm,

with a love of one's country, to make many of its inhabitants unhappy? I dare ſay, you may

have heard ſomething inſinuated like this, as though the word patriotiſm ſtood oppoſed to the word loyalty, but I think i oppoſite to d:ſloyalty. - Patrio k people's felicity, diſloyal folks their wretchedneſs.

You confeſs, you are indebted to Paine-for the alteration in your ſentiments concerning

this kingdom. You would never have ſeen Paine's writings, if they had not been put into

your hands by ſome of your friends, whoſe minds have been already corrupted. Paine corrupted your friends; he, and your friends

have corrupted you; and you are trying to

corrupt your brother. Is it not neceſſary

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that our government ſhould put a ſtop to ſuch

corruptions? Pride, or diſcontent, and diſ-

affection to the form of government people live under, are the parents of rebellion, and will ſooner or later, if not ſubdued, produce ſome offspring of this ſort. It is a painful

beloved child; but correction is ſometimes abſolutely neceſſary in order to ſubdue the

refractory diſpofition of a ehild. You . | howto apply this ſimile.

LOUISA. | Yes, I do; and am determined to hear Miſs Neville's ſententious diſcourſe, with all

| the patience I can muſter up. But, child, you | know women can do no-harm, and what does _ it ſignify whether we are patriotiſts, —

or republicans * It ſigniſies a great deal; it is a matter of con-

fequence. Are not women wives, mothers,

fiſters, &c. &e. according to your own ac- count if women ate badly diſpoſed they may

influence men to act wrong. They may poiſon | ae

taſk to an affectionate parent, to corre& a

2-4 )

che minds of their huſbands, ſons, and brothers, «Ahab ſold himſelf to work iniquity,” ob- ſerve, © whom Jezebel his wife ſtirred up,” 1 Kings xxi. ver 25. Shall it ſoon be ſaid, «Cleander left the kingdom, becauſe his K ſiſter Louiſa perſuaded him to quarrel with our form of government?”

a LOGS.

Ir is certain people may get more money in America than they can here, we have ſuch exorbitant taxes; poor men in this nation are working for other people.

CLARA.

ear | po Hb all Poar people in this kingdom want nothing,

• but genuine chriſtianity, to make them con-

tented and thankful. If our taxes are more than they uſed to be, and ſo proviſion is become dearer than it was formerly, wages are higher; ſome have nearly double the wages that were given half a century ago. I have heard when Lincoln Minſter was built, poor men worked jor one penny a day. Now they have gene- rally twenty four times that ſum. I ſuppoſe the increaſe of our taxes, from that time to _— --.

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(8-3 the preſent, cannot be multiplied by more than twenty-four. So that poor people in this kingdom are not worſe off than they ever were. The poor in this nation, I think I may venture to aſſert, need never ſuffer any very

great diſtreſs for want of food and raiment, W except it is their own fault. Our workhouſes | 18 are excellent inſtitutions, and many of them comfortable habitations for ſuch as are well diſpoſed. That many others are not com-

fortable is not owing to any defect in our

| Legiſlature, but becauſe they are not always

properly ſuperintended by pariſh officers, whoſe avocation in life, does not, perhaps,

leave them time enough to attend to their em-

ployments as overſeers. The gentlemen in Wiſbech, have ſet: an ex-

ample, relative to the poor, which if generally

followed, might be productive of many happy conſequences. They have undertook to ſu- perintend the workhouſe, and ſee that the

inhabitants of it are properly treated. An

excellent inſtitution is alſo now to be found

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in Wiſbech workhouſe; a day ſchool, where

8) - me children in the houſe are taught reading W and working. But another reaſon may be aſſigned, why

poor people are often unhappy in a work- bouſe, viz. their own tempers; they too fre- = | 7 quently quarrel with one another, and are not,

ouſes obliging to the maſter and miſtreſs of the

them WW houſe, and ſo occaſion much diſquietude.

well But are our legiſlators to be blamed for this,

com- I hope for the honor of human nature, that

our

nore 1 this ever may very

nent,

there are few towns or villages in this kingdom ways where the poor have not friends, who would cers, relieve their diſtreſſes, if they were made ac- haps, quainted with them. I have been in many em- towns, and always met with ſome humane benevolent people in every place. But it is ex- not uncommon for poor people to be leſs rally careful of their money than they ought to be, appy and then when they are really in want, to omit ſu⸗- ſeeking that redreſs they ſtand in need of. the I believe there is one ſet of poor people, An who ſuffer through their wages being tod ſmall und for the preſent times. But government is not here to blame in this matter; but rich, opulent

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farmers, and manufacturers, whoſe labourers

are often forced to procure a ſubſiſtence for

| themſelves, a wife, and four or five children,

with, perhaps, leſs than ten ſhiliings a week,

We will ſuppoſe their rent one ſhillinga week, their firing another, the expences of a lying-in and ſickneſs equal to another, their bread, four more, then there remains but two or three ſhillings a week for other victuals, cloaths, &c. for ſix or ſeven people. It is a pity the farmers and manufacturers will not more ſeriouſly attend to matters of this kind. Now, Louiſa, if you would take as much pains to perfuade your uncle to pay his poor labourers better, as you do to perſuade your brother into America, yau might be really uſeful,

though a woman. I know ſome farmers wives who feel ſo much for the wives of their ſer» vants, that they oft give them bread, milk,

broth, or meat, which are equally as good as

money to them. May many of my Ry women — their 1

LOUISA;

ent

(45)

. Well, let us leave theſe affairs to the men, and we will talk on ſome other ſubject. Why did not you fit down at the card table laſt nightf

Cards are not a favorite amuſement of mine.

My ſituation in life, affords me ſome leiſure

hours, but thoſe hours I can ſpend more to

is unpleaſant to me to loſe my money at cards, and it is alſo equally unpleaſant to me to win peoples money who cannot afford to loſe it. But more diſagreeable ſtill, it is to me, to ſee

peoples tempers ruffled and diſcompoſed, by |

their ill luck at cards. But if you pleaſe, we will proceed on the former ſubjeR, as I do

not wiſh to loſe this opportunity of converſing with you on matters of importance.

_ LOUISA. Miſs Neville ſhall be obliged, and I will

endeavour to be all attention; only do not let us quarrel on ſubjetts that no way concern us.

CLARA. | No. Surely we are not fo ill-bred, that we cannot converſe together without quarelling! | „ But

my own ſatisfaction than at a card-table. It

6 26)

But this ſubje& does concern us, ſeeing we are rational creatures as well as the lords of the creation, and ought, moſt certainly to underſtand right from wrong. Otherwiſe we

may, through ignorance, infuſe bad principles into our childrens minds, ſhould we ever

become mothers; or we may leave a vacuum in their intellectual faculties, for ſome ill-

informed perſon to fill up.

Ss: LOUISA, | Mothers nave no bufineſs to inſtru their

children on political ſubjetts, that is a father's buſineſs. It is ſufficient for a mother to ſee her children is nurſed properly, and then kept clean and neat in their dreſs, and decent in

their behaviour. Was I a mother, my boys

ſhould ſoon go out to ſome academy, and my

girls ſhould be put to a boarding-ſchool, as ſoon as they were fit co * taught reading and working. «Me | CL ARA, Then neither the father nor mother of your children would have an opportunity of teach-

ing them. F athers muſt be ſuppoſed to be more capable of teaching their children how

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judge about politics, than mothers. But if my children's father ſhould have no time to inſtruct them, or but very little, what is to

mother of ignoramuſſes. If I ever marry and have children, for their ſakes I vill learn every thing I can, which is likely to render | me truly uſeful to my children. It would be bpleaſing to me, I dare ſay, to be the mother of ſome ſprightly little girls, and two or three rough hardy boys, but indeed it is a matter of doubt to me, whether I could keep the little rogues neat and clean. But, Louiſa, this is a

why we ought to know right from wrong, as relative to our duty as ſubjects of this realm.

Do ve not profeſs to be Chriſtians, fol- lowers, and imitators of Chriſt? Now our Lord taught his followers, both by example and precept, to be loyal ſubjects. Look at Matt. xvii, ver. 27. and at Mark xiv. ver. 17. The ſcripture condemns people who are fre-

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to aft as tonal ſabjeRs, and alſo how to

be done then? I ſhould not like to be the

digreſſion. I wiſh to advance another reaſon -

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| «Evif of dignities.” See a Peter xx, ver. 10 Jude x. It is a divine command, © That every foul be ſubject to the higher pow-

• ers.“ Romans xiii. ver. 1. Minifters are

_ Exprefsly commanded to © teach ſubjection «to priticipalities and powers, and obedience to magiſtrates.” Titus iii. ver. 1. When a Nero was a ſovereign, the divine command was * Honor the King,“ 1 Peter ii. ver. 17. Under the former diſpenſation we find ſome ſuch characters as now exiſt, called * Sons of «Belial.” Theſe are called «vain men,” 2 Chron. xiii. ver. 77. Look at 1 Samuel ver. 19. Deu. xiti. ver. 13. Judges xix. ver. 22. 1 Sam. xxx. ver. 22. 1 Kings XXi. ver. 10. It ſeems theſe «Sons of Beliat* were a diſcontented people. There is no peace (no contentment) to the wicked. Ifaiah xIviii. ver. 22. LOUISA,

Oh! 1 am quite tired of your ſcripture proofs; why 1 do not read in the bible once a month, and ſhould not find all theſe paſſages

— a twelve-month, for 1 have no inclination

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to look at them. But why are you fo ſevere againſt people who do not think exactly as you do? I know ſome who read the bible | more than I do, and yet can find out many | more faults in our government than I can think of.

cLARA.

| Then they read the bible to a very bad | purpoſe, Severity 1s not quite natural to my temper, but we ought to bear an open and uniform teſtimony againſt what we know to be = wrong. We may be acquainted with amiable

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ww people who may imbibe the unhappy ſpirit of el diſloyalty, that is gone out into the world,

and in ſuch a caſe, we ought to endeavour to - convince them of the danger of imbibing ſuch principles. | | LOD ISAs

| What an infamous piece of buſineſs this preſent war is! Do not you think our So- vereign and his miniſters did very wrong to involve this kingdom in an panecallary 1ce CF -- ges

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( 20 ) CLARA.

I am inclined to think the war was necel. thy: It appears to me that we were bound to defend our allies the Dutch. And we have had reafon to ſuppoſe the French would not have let us reſted very quietly, if they had been

in a capacity to have diſturbed our tranqui- lity. Add to theſe we have had enemies to the ſtate in our own kingdom; this can- not be denied. Certainly theſe things required ſome exertions in our government, and per- haps were juft cauſes for this war.

Vou and I are fixed by divine providence ſo far from the wheels of government, that

ae can never, on a certainty, pronounce their ſprings to be wrong. And ſuppoſe ſome mould think this war ought to have been avoided, our Sovereign, and others who are at the helm of affairs, did not think ſo. And are not they more likely to know what

will be of advantage to this nation, than thoſe

whoſe employments and avocations in life leave them no time to ſtudy national affairs?

When 1 have heard ſome women ſpeak

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violently againſt this preſent war, and hear them bring forth their reaſons why it ought not to have been, it has reminded me of that | paſſage in Homer's lliad, where Hettor ſays

to Andromecha,

% No more Æbut haſten to hs taſk at home,

E There guide the ſpindle, and direct the loom;

«Me glory ſummons to the martial ſcene, be * The field of combat is the iphere for men,??

' LOUISA. 3 If you talk for ever, I ſhall ba for the

| «rights of man,” for „liberty and indepen-

• dence.” Pray what priviliges do we enjoy

n this nation] 4 CLARA,

There are no priviliges but what a Chriſtian |

may enjoy in Great Britain. Are we not protected in all our rights and immunities?

in all our religious concerns? You ſee every

they pleaſe without being moleſted; „None e daring to make them afraid,” becauſe our

government will not ſuffer it,

The

Have we not full liberty to act as we pleaſe

ſe& and party can worſhip how and where

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habitants of this country are ineſtimable. And will ſee © their lines are fallen in a pleaſant Britain. Look at Jeremiah xxix. ver. 7, If

| ought we to do ſo for our native place; this happy Iſle!

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1 The bleſſings we enjoy as natives and in-

all who truly fear the Lord vill be content ynder our mild and happy government, They

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place,” Pſalm xvi. ver. 6. They will ſeek, and pray for the peace and happineſs of Great

the-children of Iſrael were to ſeek and pray for the peace of Babylon, how much more

«To God a we'll pay our grateful ſongs, His kind protection ſtill implore; % O may our hearts, and lives and tongues t Confeſs his goodneſs and adore,” 2

LOUISA, | TEL

You muſt allow me to think as Si pleaſe concerning loyalty, for I ſhall never be of your judgment on this ſubjet. I cannot be convinced, that the nations of the earth derive any advantage from kings. I admire the ſentiments of the F cench, who were deter- mined

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8 account t of the cruel treatment they have

much is a man to be pitied who is led to the

allows for murdering his wife His diſtreſs

but the vengeance of the Lord will follow and Wh overtake that nation, for their. unprecedented

added a long, &c. being committed in cold blood, as has been

• of time,” any records more black than thoſe

vill be concerning the French during the years

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mined to drive regal authority out of their dominions. How much are they to be pitied

Ves, they are to be pitied indeed! How:

may draw the ſympathetic tear, but reaſon muſt approve of his puniſhment. No doubt

| [barbarity in murdering their King and Queen, Wand Princeſs Elizabeth, to which may be

The annals of hiſtory does not «furniſn us with an account of ſo many terrible murders

in an adjoining nation theſe three laſt years. We cannot find, „ in all the hoary regiſters

1792, 1793, and 1794. The Iriſh maſſacre”

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6 in Charles s time, was not ſo deep a tragedy a5 the French murders have been. Their cruelty in deſtroying their Sovereign and his unfortiinate conſort, has no parallel. Poor Maria Antoinette, © Pity bleeds at thought of thee?” K 4 IX ee LOUISA. . Kings are no more than other men. What is there more ſacred in the perſon of a King J than a a peaſant? 1 | CLARA, 1H nt Louiſa, how are your intellects poi- L ſoned! In your ſoul indeed «the gold is [| * become dim.“ How is the moſt fine gold | changed?” Lam. iv. ver. 1. To hear you ” talk, muſt excite a laudable indignation againſt | Paine and his adherents. The perſons of Kings are more ſacred than others, if we believe the Scriptures. And the ſufferings of | the King and Queen of France were greater fan any other peoples could have been, except 1 they were in ſimilar ſtations. Were you end

I compelled to live on bread and water, and | ſleep

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on ſtraw, and ſcarce ever has a good meal.

| LOUISA. | Say no more, I beſeech you; I mult live in America, You may hug your chains, and enjoy your fancied bliſs, but ſoon I hope to breathe that air, where © liberty and inde- pendence reign.” I hope I was born to be free! 3 | CLARA, If you are born to be free, it appears you are not born to be happy, nor to. make other

are concerting plans to make people unhappy? Is it * nothing to you”? to make people

or elſe you would not wiltully, deliberately, and unneceſſarily break through every natural

to you, a cloſe and ſerious attention to the

D informed

ſleep on ftraw, our ſufferings would be greater than a poor man's would be who always ſleeps

people ſo. Do you feel no concern when you wretched? You are become callous, I think,

tie, and leave your friends and relatives to | | mourn for you. Am ſorry for your infatua-

| T | | | | | |

| tion, and muſt take the liberty to recommend

bible, that by it your ment may be better

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informed than it is at preſent. Seek Wiſdom

and you will find contentment, —_— you ſhould remain in England.

„

My dear girl, do not you think thoſe words

of HeQor's are applicable to yourſelf? Had

not you better be at your needle than talking

about politics, and things you do not under.

and?

. oor rt oe,

pro mm

I never do talk about politicks, I perfectly underſtand this, that every ſubject is to be loyal to his Sovereign, this the holy oracles have taught me. And as to my needle, it does not require my attention juſt now, when it is in my fingers, can move it pretty quick Tf Andromacha had been giving her country women good advice, I do not think Hettor would have diſapproved of it, but ſhe was diſſuading him from fighting for his country in ſuch, or ſuch a place, and this was the cauſe of his reproof, I am very ſorry I can make no impreſſion on your mind. I know bl if you are not under the direction of the von 1 VV ff

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of God, * neither would» you he perſuaded 1 though one roſe from the dead.“ | I have oft fat in pain, to hear people talk againſt our government, and have not had courage to contradict them, but this was not right, It was a falſe modeſtly. Women ought to have courage to aſſert what is right; and to diſcountenance whatever is wrong; and alſo to endeayour, to teach people, ſo far | as comes within their province, to F ear Ggd,

jad HONOR THE KING, |